Unearthing Truths: Embracing Change, Awakening Purpose, and Challenging Stereotypes


Unearthing Truths: Embracing Change, Awakening Purpose, and Challenging Stereotypes

Unearthing Truths: Embracing Change, Awakening Purpose, and Challenging Stereotypes


Be sure to ask yourself, “Am I resisting this [science] because I don’t want it to be true?” That’s where we need to start the conversation. I’m not out to change anybody. I’m out to help people. And people aren’t seeing that difference right now.   -Geoff Palmer

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Ella Magers, MSW:

Yeah. Well, Geoff, it was so amazing to have you and Vanessa come up to Hogs and Kisses Farm Sanctuary to be a part of that, to be able to share that with you guys, because something, I feel like I go up there and nobody from my life down here in South Florida gets to really experience that with me. And so it just felt really, really good to have you guys come up, to have Sean there to be able to have these really amazing conversations together. Thank you again for coming up, for being our speaker, for sharing that with me.

Geoff Palmer:

Oh, no, my pleasure. Thank, I should be thanking you. I mean, that was such a recharge of the batteries, a reconnection to the natural world. It is. With the big creatures in the world. I mean, those pigs are ginormous and it’s amazing. They’re so gentle, but so big at the same time, and just to get really close to them and connect them and feel that energy. Wow. We need to get more people to have that experience. I think when they do, I was just listening to a podcast of Dr. Emil. Did you hear that one on? Okay. No. He is a plant-based doctor from UK and he listened to the Gki thing and it’s like, wow. And that really changed me. He goes, but what really changed me is I went to, my wife had become vegan and she asked me to go to a sanctuary with her, and when I got there and I so connected with the animals, I said, that’s it, and that’s done. It’s one thing knowing it, but when you experience it firsthand, when you feel the energy, it just becomes undeniable. I think the separation that we experience in modern life that we’re so detached from the experience of eating the animal, I think that just really leaves way too much room for objectification and distance and the species of them that we see so prevalent, especially with males. Yeah. But I know we got a whole conversation.

Ella Magers, MSW:

Yeah, no, we’ll get to that. But I think this is good, and as a introduction really to this theme that I want to have for today, which is unification. And we talked a lot about that while we were at the sanctuary and what you’re saying, that connection. Yeah. So I want to dive deep into all of that today. I think for our listeners, I’m going to put the link for our first interview from the Vegan Life Coach podcast in the show notes. And I’m going to encourage everybody who’s listening to go ahead and go over there and also listen to that. We spent quite a bit of time on your personal journey, which is, I mean, really your episode, I mean, I’m going to say it is probably one, maybe my favorite episode of all a hundred episodes of the Vegan Life Coach podcast because it was so powerful and so inspiring, and I just had perma chills the whole time we were talking and for a long time after, and I know our listeners did too. So I want everybody to go listen to that. But if you could start by just, I don’t know if you can do it in a nutshell, but kind of start with your story a little bit before we go into the rest, if you don’t mind.

Geoff Palmer:

Yeah, sure. And I guess it starts as a good reference point because I hear people when they look at me and say, oh, you’re a bodybuilder. That’s for vanity. Or Oh, you sell supplements, you’re all about just making money. And I’m like, wow, if you just took an opportunity to get to know me, you would know how far from the truth that really is watching Star Trek. And I see them living beyond a monetary society and I’m like, oh my God, if we could all just rise to our best because it’s what we’re passionate about, what we love and what we do well, what an amazing world we would be living in, not doing things we have to that we’re reluctant to do that we feel resistant to. Imagine if we were all running at a hundred percent investment in what it is we are contributing to society, how much further along our society could be right now.

But I feel so grateful that people like you and I have actually created not only a lifestyle, but being able to make a living so that we not have to worry about to a large extent immediate needs of food, shelter, clothing, that sort of thing. Whereas so much of the world does have that as their prima force, the main directive. But okay, so it started out in a nutshell. I went through an extraordinary transition. I had lost my father to alcohol. My mother was diagnosed with terminal illness and I lost my brother to mental illness. So my entire family was crumbling apart. And I cautioned to say this, but I was raised in a high IQ family and it has a double-edged sword. One, yeah, there’s benefits in society for having a high iq, but there’s also a degree of separation that comes with it where you know things that may interest you aren’t going to be interesting to an average person or to the other people.

And so when my nuclear family just fell apart or died or was lost in a matter of just a few years, that support blanket, that connection where I could lean on to talk about the deeper ideas and deeper feelings and not be criticized, not be made fun of, not be shunned or ostracized, that left me in a very scary place, losing my father figure and then having to go right in three days before my 18th birthday, six months before graduating from high school, going into the work world of the college world without someone. And my dad was brilliant, genius IQ professor at the university level, extraordinary renaissance man, played 14 instruments, was an actor, playwrights the storyteller, artist, painter, photographer. I mean, it was just brilliant. And to have that, to go from that to nothing, when I’m entering into a world that is based on taking, is based on competition and not collaboration or cooperation, it was a rough transition for me.

And I fell into a very dark place of depression, drugs, alcohol did it all, and it wasn’t changing. So I attempted to take my life on two occasions, the last one ending up in a coma for three days, but I knew I had to turn something around or it was over for me. I wasn’t interested in carrying on. And fortunately I found someone who did help me through a breakthrough that was so profound. I can’t, words do not give it justice. The experience itself literally felt like my old self walked out of my body and I was renewed with a whole new perspective on life. And I was so grateful for that, that I said, that’s it. I am dedicating the rest of my life to finding ways to reduce suffering in others. And of course, in my meditation that evening, the very first thing that my higher voice said to me was, don’t harm the animals.

And that’s it. And so I quit drinking, quit smoking, quit doing all drugs, and quit eating all animal products that day, that moment and dedicated the rest of my life to helping others do the same. That’s how powerful it is me and it’s, it’s been such a joyous path to be able to do it. Not an easy path, especially back in 1985, I didn’t even know there was a word vegan back then. So we didn’t have the books, we didn’t have the movies. There was no internet yet. It was nothing, no social media, no support whatsoever. I did not know a single other person that was vegan. So that was a long path, but I was, people say, oh, you are committed to this path. And I’m like, no, it was so absolute. It’s not commit, it’s not trying. There was no try. That was it. This is me. And there’s a difference.

Ella Magers, MSW:

Totally. And I think I’m guessing listeners are going to want to know, and again, you guys are going to need to go back and listen to the other interview, but one thing that comes up for me is that you’ve told this story how many times, Jeff? I mean hundreds, I’m sure when you tell it, and this means you keep revisiting it. How have you got gained new insights about that and what happened over the years and how has that journey for you just continuing to grow and then see what happened from a new place? Does that make sense what I’m saying?

Geoff Palmer:

It does. I just started writing a book with a friend of mine who’s a published writer and he’s helping me with the book. And in that I’ve been sharing the stories. And of course for him to get a good understanding of how to help me write the book, we have to go deep. And yes, it was like the most intense therapy session all over again. And in so many ways it was almost more intense because in living it, I see the last 38 years of my life and how I’ve applied those lessons, those changes. And that just makes me even more grateful. I mean, when I feel when people lose someone they love, the intensity of the pain they’re feeling is the intensity of the love and connection that they have with that person or animal. And when I look back at that experience and relive it through retelling it, there’s a whole lifetime of almost four decades in there of how I’ve tried to apply that to the best of my ability and what I’ve learned along the way.

And that’s just, that gives me even more awe. It makes me even more inspired to keep going, to see the progress and to see the change over that period of time from creating a successful brand to finding a partner like Vanessa, to having a circle of friends like yourself and so many of the other amazing people in this movement right now that are doing incredible things, the path, the journey, the experiences, and to live it from that perspective of inclusiveness, of compassion, of that coming together, that reconnection. Wow, it just seems even bigger than it was back then. I didn’t know what was to come. I had no idea. I knew I was changed, but I didn’t know how I was going to apply that in life. Now I see all the old maze and I see the way the world is actually changing in that way too as well.

And I feel part of something bigger. It’s not me and a little crusade out to change the world. It’s a undercurrent, a vibration that is exploding throughout this world. And it’s amplifying and it’s growing and it’s touching so many people that I’m honored to be a part of it, to play my role, to be in their fanning the flames of this passion that is catching fire in the world right now. I don’t need to be a singular voice. It’s not me against the world anymore, it’s, it’s me with the people that are waking up and that are reconnecting and that are feeling the vitality of what really living life feels like.

Ella Magers, MSW:

So true. And it’s interesting, Jeff, for some time I kind of moved away. I mean me, I’ve been an animal advocate since I was seven. And there was a time really at the beginning of my sexy fit vegan years where I kind of moved away from the movement in general because I was just feeling a lot of negativity around it. And now in the last year or two, three, maybe I am feeling something different, something very more positive and uplifting. And this elevation and the elevation of consciousness and connecting with you has been one of the most positive things. And I feel like that might’ve been part of the catalyst for helping me open the door to seeing that and feeling that in the movement as a whole. Have you seen the movement because been in it for so long, take waves? Is that really what’s happening? Or was that the bubble I was in, or what? Do you have a perspective on that?

Geoff Palmer:

Yeah, and Einstein had a famous quote that the greatest minds have always met with the strongest resistance. Ideas of change are usually heralded, but at the same time resisted with great force because a lot of people don’t want to change. Change is scary for a lot of people. It’s uncertain. And when change is being demanded of force upon you, like we are in a requirement with the climate change at the place it is now with forest fires breaking out all over the world with the oceans at 98 degrees robbing it of oxygen and having trillions of fish die off immediately, it’s basically being asphyxiated because the water temperature can’t support the oxygen. I mean, we’re catastrophic right now. It’s not, oh, it could happen or it may happen. No, it’s happening now. We are at a critical turning point for humankind, and we have the opportunity, probably the greatest opportunity for humankind to change course than ever before.

And there’s never been a time more important, and we can be a part of that change or we can be the ones resisting that change. The choice is ours, but I see the people that are resisting and I see the struggle that they are going through. So I am looking at that with a different perspective. There was a time when I would say, here, this can help you because here’s the studies that show that causes cancer, and you don’t have to suffer from cancer. You can make this and getting violent resistance, I mean ignorant and just totally obnoxious, untruths resistant to science, resistant to everything just to maintain their place, that status quo, I’m not going to change and you’re not going to make me great study in Australia, a thousand people, a thousand men, they asked, and 73% of the men they asked said they would rather give up 10 years of their life than stop eating meat.

If we don’t value the sanctity of life itself more than a hamburger, what are we talking about here? Life is definitely more precious than the taste buds of a burger on your tongue. It just makes no sense whatsoever. But it’s not logical. And I have to keep reminding myself of that because I am a logical person and it makes no logical sense on any level. The diet for health, for environment, for the animals, for compassion, for connectivity, for survival, it doesn’t make sense on any level to eat animal products, none. But when I see that, I see it’s an emotional resistance. I don’t want to change. I don’t want to feel wrong. No one wants to feel wrong and don’t blame me. Or we get into these identity politics. I am this person, I am this person. And if somebody says, well, no, you’re not a carnivore, you’re an herbivore, then that just sets up things.

Even when we scientifically no for a fact that we are herbivores physiologically, we are herbivores. There’s no denying it. The only way you can deny it is just to completely deny the science and our own physiology altogether. But then I was even on the plane, getting on the plane coming back from the amazing time, thank you so much for having me up onto the farm. And I was wearing a vegan shirt of course, and a wom. I sat down, a woman across the saying says, oh, I would never be vegan. And I said, well, you can be vegan. You choose not to be vegan. She goes, no, no, no, you know, need meat to eat. And I’m like, okay, well the science says, and she cut me off and she goes, I don’t believe in science. I don’t think there is any fact. And I’m like, wow, living in a mental world where there is no fact, it’s all opinion.

But that’s where we’ve come to. And I think social media and the political situation has really driven our mindsets into you are what you believe. That’s not reality. That’s mass psychosis. I know I’ve lived with two psychotic brothers. They did the same thing. They believed the reality was reality and not. And people don’t see that. And I apologize. I don’t mean to call anybody with a different opinion, psychotic. That’s not what I’m saying. Lemme clarify that When we deny the facts, the real science that we are in a place, just ask yourself based on this, look at the research and ask yourself is does this make sense on any level? Now, be sure to ask yourself, am I resisting this? Because I don’t want it to be true. That’s where we need to start the conversation. I’m not out to change anybody. I’m out to help people. And people aren’t seeing the difference of that right now.

Ella Magers, MSW:

Yeah. And then one of the things we were talking about at the sanctuary was how to unify and changing the narrative. And I thought it was so brilliant what you talked about in terms of change, the narration from vegan versus meat eater to the general public versus indoctrination by institutions. How do talk about that and how, but how do we get everybody on board that right? Yes, yes. We can say it from our side, but here I go with my side, our side, right, right. But yes, how do we do this?

Geoff Palmer:

And so I think we need to get back to accepting that. So when I hear people defending their dietary pattern, they’ll say, well, this is right for me. And they’ll say, well, I’m X amount of of age and I’m healthy. Or My grandfather lived in 90 and eating meat every day. And I’m like, yes. But imagine what have, what his life could have been like had he given his cells optimal health. Yeah, he did make it before you died, but if you’re setting, death is the bar for health and existence of your life. That’s a low bar. Just this Dr. Gregor video on telomere length. And he’s showing that yes, somebody can be the exact same chronological age, live to 90, chronologically same age, their cells be 20 to 30 years different in cellular aging. That means the cells aren’t functioning properly, they are misfiring, they are not healthy.

You can live to 90 and die and think, oh, I lived a healthy life doing what I did. No, you lived in unhealthy life all the way to 90, and thank God your yourselves were working overtime to try to combat that. We’re a self-healing machine. Now. You can work it and your body will still perform miracles in keeping you alive even when you throw crap in it all the time. That’s a testament to your body’s ability to adapt to what the negative things you’re doing to it. It’s imagine if you’re actually working with your body, giving it what it needs to not only survive, but to live optimally. That’s the huge difference. When I changed to a plant-based diet, my health improved on so many levels. Some of the levels were intangibles, like my sensitivity increased, my sense of smell, my sense of eyesight, my sense of taste all dramatically increased and changed.

When you go on a whole food plant-based diet, your cells adapt and start performing optimally to the point where I would go out to dinner and have something and I would like, whoa, I can’t even eat that. Where before I was so desensitized by having regular bad food, I didn’t even notice the difference. You don’t notice the change until you’ve actually lived a whole food, plant-based based diet with optimal nutrition. Then you will know the difference. It was like when I was drinking, I went out to a bar and would go drinking and dancing. I love dancing and freeing the spirit in one way or another. And I got out of the dance floor the day after I stopped drinking and I felt so weird. I could feel everything. I wasn’t numb. And that’s what food does. It numbs the body. It decreases our body’s sensitivity.

Now I get that. I get why I did it. I think we need to address that foundational piece in people that we’re all trying to numb ourselves because the world we’re living in isn’t very pleasant. The experience we’re having isn’t pleasant. So it’s hard to say. I was at a raw food festival and people were saying, well, how can we get more people to eat raw foods? And I said, raw foods extends life. And I’m like, yeah, I know. That’s why we more people. I said, most people are trying to slowly kill themselves. When you have a fire, you try to put out the fire. When you’re feeling pain, you try to stop the pain. And whether we know it or not, subconsciously, if you are in pain, you will do everything in your power, including shorten your own life to shorten the amount of pain that you have to endure.

And I think that’s the subconscious message we’re sending to ourselves. Why? Especially there are so many men out there shortening their life, even saying in an interview, I’d rather have 10 years left of my life because they’re not valuing life, not that great of an experience or that they’re pain, emotional pain, psychological pain that they’re trying to ignore, that they’re not seen and that they don’t want to. Why would anybody want to sensitize their life if they’re in pain? That would increase the amount of pain. Why would anybody want to live longer if a life was painful? No, you don’t want that to go longer. You want it to go shorter. So I think there are two really approaches trying to communicate to somebody why the advantages up to that, but showing them instead, showing them not just that they’re advantages. There are advantages that subconsciously may not register with them that that’s the path they’re on. And I think we need to start here.

If we don’t fix this part, the rest won’t come in line. And when I had that emotional breakthrough and clarity, a moment of forgiveness, all of the rest of those bad habits just dropped off like ashes off my body. And I think we’re approaching the situation wrong. We’re trying to tell people why this is good without understanding their path. And if we can show people that life can be good, then there may be a potential. And that’s why I think food and nutrition and exercise can be, so it can give people a glimpse of what health feels like, and then they might say, Hey, wait a minute, that feels a lot better than where I was at. I don’t feel as depressed. I don’t feel as anxious. We now know we have science that shows exercise decreases anxiety by 30 to 40% in people just on 20 minutes a day. I mean, this is huge impact on our psychological health.

If we can show people a little glimpse and show that this change that we’re talking about is for them. But if you’ve never seen or felt what that positive experience is like, or it’s been 20, 30 years of your life where you’ve been entrenched in a job you don’t like, a relationship that’s not great, a situation at home that is not good, you feel trapped. You feel like there is no escape, and of course you’re going to resist because status quo is better. At least you know what the familiar bad experiences rather than bringing on something that you may not have an answer for, may not have adjusted or adapted to. I too totally understand the reasons for resistance, but I want to be an example to show people there is something better on the other side and that they can move through it, and that people like yourself and myself are here to help you, to help walk that path in a way and not feel alone. And there’s so many more people out there now who are being examples, and I think that’s going to make it more easy for people to say, I want what they’ve got. I’m tired of this experience that I’m at right now. I want something better. I’m going to give it a shot doing it, and they’re doing all right, 39 years vegan. If something was broken with that prospect, I’d surely be experiencing it by now. It’s 60 years not being the best shape of my life.

Ella Magers, MSW:

Well, and I, I’d love for us to dive a little deeper into the considerations when it comes to men in particular and masculinity. And thank you for being the example that you are for being able to talk from a very vulnerable space about your experiences, your emotions. These are things that are really toxic in for men in general. And one of the things that happened this year was we had our second ever a hundred percent vegan bodybuilding competition. You guys, this came along with the vegan health and fitness expo this time. I was honored to be a judge for the second time. And just seeing these insanely fit and built vegan competitors up on stage was so inspiring. How are you reaching men with this message? How do you see that climate changing? Is it changing and yeah, talk about that.

Geoff Palmer:

Yeah, so I’ve approached it from so many different angles over the last almost four decades because it’s heartbreaking to me. Men have been conditioned in a society with certain norms, just like women have certain body types, certain ways of being with in relationships. Both of them I think are presence for men and women. And we need to bust out of those stereotypes to feel our whole self, our real experience of not being the masculine stereotype that everybody thinks they’re supposed to live by, but to be a real man, to feel what it is to be a man and live free, not of the dictations of our society, but of who you really are. A thinking, feeling, real, honest, caring human being. That should be the definition of a male or female in this world, not these cockamamie skewed up things that we’re, by and large, mostly fear marketing techniques created by the meat and dairy industry to get you to eat more of their products.

It’s marketing, it’s advertising, and they’ve got us duped. It’s lie. It’s simply a tool, a psychological tool just like, oh, don’t go outside with your der urine or you’ll smell bad and you’ll turn off the person that you’re trying to attract. It’s fear marketing. Oh my God. Oh, if you don’t eat meat, you won’t be masculine. You won’t get strong. You won’t build muscle. Come on guys. I’m 60 years of age, 17 inch arms. Are you freaking kidding me? It’s a lie. You’ve been lied to and they’ve got you in a constant state of fear, be a real man. Step out of the fear. Stop powering to the manipulation tactics of the marketers out there. It’s a lie. It’s garbage and it’s killing us. Guys are so embedded with this meat as masculinity myth that they’re eating the very foods that actually take away their masculinity from every step in the process.

It’s giving them heart attacks. It’s causing dementia, cholesterol. Let’s touch on cholesterol for a second because it’s so important to this concept. Cholesterol is only found in significant amounts in animal foods, meat, dairy, eggs, fish, all of it. Anything that animal produces cholesterol, just like we do. We’re an animal. We produce our own cholesterol. We require zero external cholesterol. As a matter of fact, when we do consume cholesterol, it can cause packing of the arteries and not just the arteries going to the heart, but also to the brain. I have pictures of encoded arteries of Alzheimer’s patients. It’s all saturated fat and cholesterol only comes from animal products. You can get a little saturated fat from plants, but not a significant enough quantities to cause this to happen. So a researcher said, all right, we’ve known this for a hundred years, 1809 when it was first discovered that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis.

Atherosclerosis will be the cause of death, disease, death for 50% of Americans, 50% of Americans will die from atherosclerosis caused by consuming animal cholesterol. And it’s not just animal cholesterol. If it were just the cholesterol, that would be one thing like carnivores. Carnivores don’t get atherosclerosis. When I hear people say, it’s impossible, you can feed a carnivore, any carnivore animal, and even true omnivore, animals don’t get atherosclerosis. Only herbivores get atherosclerosis. Well, we get it and it’s the number one killer of human beings in the world globally. So they said, okay, well, if that’s the case, well then humans have to be herbivores because carnivores and omnivores, two omnivores don’t and can’t get no matter how much saturated fat and cholesterol you feed ’em all day long, they will never develop it. Their thyroid produces a different enzyme. Our thyroid, just like every other herbivore, does not produce that enzyme.

And then that’s what causes cholesterol plating in the arteries. So they said, well, if that’s the case, well then all humans should have atherosclerosis. So they did these autopsies over a thousand people, and they looked at the autopsies and they said, well, we want to look at younger people too. So you can’t go and kill people, but you can look at autopsies where they died from suicides or early heart attacks or car accidents, et cetera. So they looked at all these autopsies and they found atherosclerosis in 100% of the human beings that they looked at every single of the over a thousand, I think it was actually over 3000 people that they looked at. 100% of the humans had atherosclerotic lesions by the age of 15. They found that even as soon as nine years of age already atherosclerotic plaques beginning to form nine years old because they’re eating animal products because they’re eating oxidized cholesterol cooked animal products 100%.

I mean, it’s just not arguable anymore. Heme iron is the other major thing that we know why. We know we’re herbivores. Heme iron does not and cannot give cancer to a true omnivore or a carnivore. It’s impossible. Doesn’t happen. Heme iron is created by our own body, so our body thinks it must be made by us. Heme iron is free iron, and it’s not bound to an antioxidant like plant iron is. So he iron, which is found in blood, so it’s in all things, fish to any animal flesh, right? Heme iron goes in and oxidizes in our digestive tract. One, it gets goes so fast into our bloodstream because our body thinks, oh, I must have made that because that’s the only place it would be. So it pulls it into the bloodstream thinking it must have accidentally got into the digestive tract. And that’s why he iron absorbs so fast.

But it absorbs so much that the liver says, oh, that’s too much and has to stop. It produces the liver, produces a thing called hepcidin to block he iron from getting into the, so all this heme iron starts to build up on the digestive tract and it forms in nitrosamines. These are carcinogenic compounds. We know the exact pathway that heme iron found in all animal flesh, fish, poultry, chicken, beef, lamb, all of it. We know the exact pathways of which it causes cancer. We know that it’s not arguable. It does cause cancer. Not may not sometimes. No, it does. And we know that key iron is only found in animal products. It’s zero in plant products. Well, the plant products actually have a phytate molecule called phytic IP six. So researchers recently found, well, what happens when our body actually breaks off that so that we can use the plant, that phytic acid actually can protect cells from cancer.

So it’s anti-cancer agent, and then it actually does something more cool, which it goes inside and actually can turn an oncogene off. So it can take a cancer cell, go inside and correct the D N A and turn that cancer cell back into a normal healthy cancer cell. Yes, we spend over a trillion dollars on cancer research trying to stop cancer by killing it, which is something phytic acid and plants does all day long. But something no drug on this planet can do a plant’s beans and greens can do all day long, which is turn a cancer cell back into a healthy normal cell. So you have the two options. You eat animal iron and it causes cancer known carcinogen. You eat plant iron and it can turn that cancer cell back into a healthy cell. I mean, which should we be eating? It’s so clear. And that he iron does not cause cancer. Cholesterol does not cause cardiovascular disease. And those are the top two killers of Americans. We know human beings are herbivores. There is no physiological argument against it. Period.

Ella Magers, MSW:

It’s so clear

Geoff Palmer:

With this already. No, I thought this would be enough. Right? And people are still in denial like, oh my God, what is wrong with people?

Ella Magers, MSW:

But people do not know this of what you’re saying. Now, here’s my question. And I was just recently at the Organic Produce Summit speaking, which was a fabulous experience. There’s all these organic farmers who are very far from being on the realm of plant-based and we’re there thanking them for feeding us because we’re saying, what you grow is all we eat, right? So thank you. Thank you for feeding us. Your food is medicine. And they’re really not thinking of it like that. And we’ve got these insanely talented marketing agencies, marketing milk, marketing meat. They’re these organizations that farmers pay into so that it can be marketed. We do not see any advertisements for broccoli. We do not see any promotions for kale on our TVs and our streaming sorts services. So there’s something missing here. So how do we market? I mean, I’m just asking you, this is coming into my head right now because if everyone knew this information, I know there’s podcasts and there’s all these, but into the mainstream, we need some heavy hitters marketing this stuff. Ooh,

Geoff Palmer:

I couldn’t agree. I couldn’t agree more. And look, it’s not about, I was with Maxim Sigo who’s an amazing human being who lost his fiance to cancer and has dedicated his life to helping others. It’s not about trying to change you because I want to be on the winning team like vegans against meat eaters. It’s not that at all. Let’s please get behind beyond this politics and see that this is let’s do the right thing. And it is. There is universal truths. There’s physiological truths. It’s not all opinion really. It’s not. Yeah,

Ella Magers, MSW:

Yeah, exactly.

Geoff Palmer:

And it’s killing us. And I’m like, do you realize arguing against me does not serve you? It’s not me. You’re arguing against, you’re arguing against physiology and to say, oh, my body is doing well on meat and eggs. No, it’s not. That’s a lie. You’re telling yourself, and it’s not my opinion. We know that it’s not opinion anymore.

Ella Magers, MSW:

And then it goes back to what you were saying before, Jeff, about people not really caring about their own lives, not finding joy in their life, not finding pleasure, not really caring about living long, healthy lives. So if we go back to that, this keeps, it goes in a circle and we’re like, well, of course, here’s the answers. It’s facts. And how do we help people get to a place where they want to live, where they want to connect? Yes. With other people, with themselves, with animals, with nature mean nobody really has an experience out in nature and comes back more hateful.

It’s, and nobody comes to our sanctuary and connects with these amazing creatures and leaves feeling worse. So then we get back to the kind of more esoteric, so where do we spend our energy? I mean, you’ve got such a wealth I’m sure, is that we only have so many hours in a day, at least in this matrix that we’re living in and time and space, we only have so many hours. So one huge thing that you’re doing is providing people with these, this information through your YouTube, through your Facebook lives, through your writing, through your speaking and providing supplementation through your clean machine company. Is it hard for you to balance all that? You’ve got so much wisdom, so much knowledge, and so much ability to help people. How do you combine that all and when people are saying, oh, this is just a bodybuilding guy, like you said, maybe your book. I think I’m so glad you’re writing a book that makes me really happy. Your story needs to be out there and we need to get you on ritual. We need to have a petition should start a petition to catch you on Rich. Yes. Okay. Sorry. Ideas.

Geoff Palmer:

Yeah. Yeah. So that’s a really great question. And of course, over 38 years, I wish I had the answer to, but I think the answer is unique to the individual. And I really have to remind myself when I’m talking because I know so much about the research and the physiology and because I’ve immersed and I’ve come from a place where I found my truth from a soulful experience, a heart smashing experience, a heart opening experience. And in that connection, you see the perfection. You see the beauty. You see how nature is in this amazing harmony. I was a kid. The very first thing I’d do is put down my books and either get out on the lake on the canoe or go hiking in the woods because the world made sense. Plants grew where the sun was and they grew towards the sun because that’s what fed them.

The mushrooms grew in the soil and they communicated to the plants and helped the plants out with their nutrition. The bacteria was there, the caterpillars were there shedding that, and they had this connection to, you see this web of life just coming together so harmoniously, so cooperatively, so beautifully is powerful. And human beings can’t be like that if we so choose. We’ve gotten too reliant on this organ and not enough on this one. And we’re way out of balance. Our mind is an extraordinary thing. I mean, in college, I was a bios psych major, looking at how our total body physiology influenced our thoughts, our mind, our behavior, our moods. Because I saw the connection. I said that’s it’s not just brain chemistry. We’re not just a brain walking around with a couple arms and legs stuck on it. No, we’re much that. And our thoughts change as we change from inside. When you have a strong feeling, when you have a breakthrough moment, your whole line of thinking can change. When I had that moment where everything changed for me, my worldview just went 360, it was like, wow. I went from seeing the world as a place. I didn’t want to be to a place where this is exactly where I want to be, where I can be the most help. But it was coming from a place of wanting to be service to others.

I used to read books about Siddhartha and these great spiritual teachers, Jesus, and how they were all serviced and to service to others, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, they were service. They lived their whole life in service to others. And we herald them as the great leaders, the great people we all follow, the people we all admire. Yep. We’re all living in service to self. And I’m like, have we missed out on that experience? And I see these teachers trying to convey, Hey, wait, service to others can be more rewarding than service to self, service to others connects you. Who doesn’t want to be connected with somebody who’s being of service to others?

That’s the kind of people I want to hang out with. That’s the people I want to gravitate towards. They have something to give, not something they want to take from me. So why don’t we behave that way? Why don’t we behave all the masters that we all looked up to and call Gods and great thinkers and great people? Why don’t we behave more like that? You can do that in the workplace. I mean, we just started doing these bars, impact bars. We want to make an impact. Every person who buys one of these bars gets a tree planted in their tank. Every person that buys one of these bars for every single bar, an animal is taken care of on an animal sanctuary. And for every single bar, a child is fed a pure vegan meal. This is a partnership with Food for Life Global.

This is the give backs that we are doing together is we are helping feeding. We’ve fed over 10,000 hungry children throughout the world, whether it be hurricanes or floods or war or famine. We are helping children. We’re giving back. That’s what the opportunity of business can do. You can in giving to others, have it reward yourself and have it continue to help other people that can snowball. I love in service to others. It is so rewarding. I was at, in one of the stores, one of the supplement stores, and a guy came in and he had always asked me, and we built up a trusting relationship. And he goes, Jeff, you always just tell me what’s right for me, but you show me all the different options so that I can choose for myself in an empowered way. And he goes, I love that you don’t try to sell me anything.

And I said, no, I’m here to help you. And so he said, well, I have kidney cancer and it’s grapefruit size tumor, and they not only want to take out the kidney, they want to remove both kidneys. So I’ll be on dialysis for the rest of my life. And they gave me about six years to live. I said, I have two young children. I want to be there for them. I said, I’ve just been reading this research about IP six, which I just mentioned that they had actually condensed into a supplement that for use in this particular thing. And I didn’t hear from him for three months. So I assumed the tumor was too aggressive and too far gone. And then I saw him and he walked into the store and he ran up to me and gave me a big bear hug and started crying.

And he said, it’s gone. The cancer’s gone. And he said, I want to thank you, but more importantly, my wife and kids want to thank you and they get to keep the dead dead. That’s the power of plants. That’s what I want to share with people. It’s not about trying to make you change to what you don’t want to change to. It’s about I really care about suffering. I suffered greatly with clinical suicidal depression. It almost took my life. I don’t want to see anybody else suffer. I don’t want to see the animal suffer, and I don’t like seeing the world suffer the way it is with this climate change. And it’s all related. It’s all the same suffering. Our own personal suffering with cancer is because of the animals. Eating animals are not plants. Our own suffering for the animals is clearly eating the animals to the tune of 80 billion plus.

It’s so connected. And if we just get reconnected to that, it’s an empowering experience. It’s an experience. You go really feel great about every day. That’s what I want for you. I don’t want you to change. So I’m right and you’re wrong. I want you to change so you live and not have to suffer and feel great about your choices because I want to see you smile. That makes me smile. I mean, if you told me that I would not have that experience because I didn’t want to find out about plants and their power that I didn’t find out about that IP six research, I wouldn’t have shared it with that guy and he’d be dead and his children would be without their father. Just like I lost my father right before my 18th birthday. I don’t want that for anyone. And we really need to get past this idea that it’s us against them. It’s not, it’s us against ignorance. It really is. I don’t want the ignorance, these false beliefs to cause you suffering. It’s that simple. And I’ll keep saying the message and I’ll keep doing it and some will listen and some won’t. And that’s okay. It’s part of the process. I trust the process. I won’t change. It doesn’t deter me. It is what I do. It’s who I am and I’ll keep doing it. I’ll keep for the rest of my life, period.

Ella Magers, MSW:

I have no doubt. And every time you talk, Jeff, every time and you’re, you talk about this for your living for the world, and you are equally as passionate every single time because it comes from a place so deep down and it comes from your inner light just pours out of you every time you talk because it it, you’re so full of integrity. And I thank you. Thank you for doing what you do for sharing, for being here today. Jeff, you’re amazing. Thank you.

Geoff Palmer:

Oh, likewise. Thank you for giving me the space to do so. I think we need to create more space for each other to share because that’s where the healing begins. And when we are healed, we will make changes. The changes will come naturally. When you feel the power of healing, when you work with your body, when you use these plants and they’re amazing healing capabilities to help you, you can be a more powerful help to the ones you love. You can be a better example to your wife, your children, your husband, your partner, all the people that you care about. You can be a better influence when you start to let the healing begin. So thank you for creating a space for healing to happen. It’s so important.

Ella Magers, MSW:

So my pleasure. We’ll talk again soon, Jeff.

Geoff Palmer:



Be sure to ask yourself, “Am I resisting this [science] because I don’t want it to be true?” That’s where we need to start the conversation. I’m not out to change anybody. I’m out to help people. And people aren’t seeing that difference right now.   -Geoff Palmer


Every time I speak with today’s guest, Geoff Palmer, which is relatively often given that he is a dear friend, I leave the conversation feeling so deeply connected, not only to him, but also to myself, my own purpose, and to the Universe if I’m totally honest. 

You’ll hear it mentioned in the interview, so I’ll fill you in here… A few months ago, Geoff and his amazing wife Vanessa traveled to Hogs & Kisses Farm Sanctuary for our annual barn warming anniversary fundraiser. They stayed in our BnB and Geoff was the guest speaker for a crowd of mostly omnivores who were moved by his story and inspired by the wisdom that he shared during his talk. 

After the event we stayed up late chatting about many of the topics that he and I cover in this episode, and it left my cup feeling so full, which is why I wanted to have him on the show so you all could be a part of this incredibly valuable discussion.

A few of the topics we dive into:

  • Geoff’s extraordinary journey of awakening after experiencing devastating loss that led him to attempt to take his own life.
  • How the World Vegan Bodybuilding Championship, founded by Geoff, is helping shape a new future, and shift the stereotypes around veganism and masculinity.
  • Science proving that humans are herbivores (fascinating!).
  • The root of resistance to change, particularly when it comes to our eating habits.
  • So much more!


Official Bio: 

Geoff Palmer is a 60year old, 38yr Vegan is a Natural Bodybuilding and Natural Physique Masters Champion, the Owner of Clean Machine Plant-Based Fitness Nutrition, author, national lecturer, vegan patent holder and 2 Time NEXTY Winner for “Best Supplement of the Year” in 2016 & 2018.Geoff was selected #40 of the “Top 100 Most Influential Vegans” by Plant Based News and created the First All-Vegan Natural Bodybuilding Competition in the World. Clean Machine has fed over 10,000 children in need through donations to Food for Life Global, the largest Vegan Food Relief Program in the world.


Listen to Geoff’s Interview on The Vegan Life Coach Podcast Here



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This episode is sponsored by…

Clean Machine Supplements – Ella’s trusted source for maximizing performance! Rise & Thrive Listeners receive 10% off with coupon code: ellacma

22REBOOT – The most comprehensive 22-day lifestyle transformation system designed for driven individuals and high-performing entrepreneurs, professionals, and leaders who are making waves with their work, while neglecting the one asset they can’t afford to lose… their health. Start your Reboot HERE now.





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